We’ve got another acting podcast today! Actor Jessy Hodges joins us on the Box Angeles podcast episode 347. Jessy stops by the bungalow and discusses the evolving landscape of auditioning, the importance of making your own stuff, whether or not we should be concerned about artificial intelligence, studying at Tisch in a program that emphasized body awareness, and more!
“With the state of the industry now … I feel grateful any time I am working.”
— Jessy Hodges
Beats
00:00 – Jessy slates her name.
00:10 – Introduction.
00:52 – Podcasts and Odenkirk-Provissiero management.
03:01 – Conversations with actor reps.
05:40 – Callbacks.
06:48 – Audition volume and a spokesman gig.
08:34 – Shifting away from commercials.
11:24 – Making your own short films.
17:21 – Using AI as actors.
23:34 – Audition coaching and self tapes.
29:20 – Standing out in auditions.
33:52 – Attending the Experimental Theatre Wing at Tisch School.
42:53 – How Jessy discovered NYU in high school.
47:25 – Being a series regular on a multi-cam in Indebted.
54:40 – Who took a chance on Jessy.
More Jessy
– Check Jessy’s IMDb.
– Follow Jessy on Instagram @jessyhodges.
– Watch Jessy’s short film Every Part of You.
Transcript
JESSY HODGES (00:00)
Okay. Hi, I’m Jessy Hodges.
MIKE ELDER (00:11)
Hello. Welcome to the podcast. I am your host, Mike Elder. Thank you so much for listening to the show. We’ve got an amazing episode this week. I spoke with actor Jessy Hodges. You’d recognize Jessy from shows like ‘Barry’.
She was on 12 or 13 episodes of ‘Barry’. ‘Always Sunny in Philadelphia’, ‘Pen15’, ‘The Goldbergs’, ‘How I Met Your Father’. The list goes on and on and on. She is a wonderful actor, a very talented actor. She studied at Tisch School.
I love Tisch School. I love NYU. I should move to New York … But we had a really good conversation, and I think you’re going to dig it, so I don’t want to waste any more time. Ladies and gentlemen, Jessy Hodges. Hi, Jessy.
JESSY HODGES (00:54)
Hi, Mike.
MIKE ELDER (00:55)
Thank you for coming down.
JESSY HODGES (00:56)
Thanks for having me.
MIKE ELDER (00:57)
I’m so excited to talk to you.
JESSY HODGES (00:58)
Me, too.
MIKE ELDER (00:59)
Have you done many podcasts?
JESSY HODGES (01:00)
Not a bunch. A couple. But very sporadic.
MIKE ELDER (01:04)
Okay, good. I like having people that aren’t into this world coming on so that people can get glimpses of those people that they haven’t heard from a lot.
JESSY HODGES (01:13)
Yeah, they’re not hearing the same story for the 10th time.
MIKE ELDER (01:17)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Also, I love that you dumped me off. No offense to your management, and I was worried.
No, you’re fine. When that happens, I get nervous. But you guys, they were very efficient over at Odenkirk.
They made it happen quick. Normally, if I get dumped to a manager or publicist. Done.
JESSY HODGES (01:34)
Oh, no, no. I’m not that busy. I was just.
MIKE ELDER (01:38)
It’s not even about the person letting.
JESSY HODGES (01:39)
Them do their job.
MIKE ELDER (01:41)
It’s not even about the person, though. I think they just are like, what is this? We don’t need to waste our person’s time.
JESSY HODGES (01:46)
No, my manager was like, yeah, he’s interviewed a bunch of great people. You should do it.
MIKE ELDER (01:50)
Yeah, I just had a bunch of. I just had Brenda Jennings on, who’s at Odenkirk.
JESSY HODGES (01:54)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (01:54)
How’d you end up at Odenkirk? Naomi Odenkirk, obviously, is a big comedy person.
JESSY HODGES (01:59)
She is.
MIKE ELDER (01:59)
And she doesn’t just take anybody, obviously.
JESSY HODGES (02:02)
No. And who knows if she really took me, but what does that mean?
Well, because I. So my very beloved agent, Danielle Schoenberg. She was my agent for, like.
MIKE ELDER (02:14)
That name sounds familiar.
JESSY HODGES (02:15)
A decade. She’s also one of my best friend’s older sister, so we have a. A deep, long connection. She saw, like, my college showcase.
MIKE ELDER (02:24)
Oh, cool.
JESSY HODGES (02:24)
Yeah. She was my agent forever. And then just, I guess last year. I think last year became a manager and she moved To Odenkirk, and I came with her.
MIKE ELDER (02:35)
Oh, got it.
JESSY HODGES (02:36)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (02:36)
You backdoored it.
JESSY HODGES (02:37)
Yeah. But I guess Naomi could have said no, not Jessy.
MIKE ELDER (02:42)
Yeah. I wonder how involved they are at that point. I wonder if they say, bring all your people. We like you and your people, obviously.
JESSY HODGES (02:50)
I think it’s different. It depends on the place. Yeah, I bet. I would think Odenkirk would be more like, they let their talent, choose their talent, so to speak.
MIKE ELDER (03:00)
Yeah. Do you talk to your. How often do you powwow with your management and agents? I always question this because, like, as green actors like me, I’m a green actor. I’ve been here, whatever, 10 plus years, and I don’t have anything to show for it.
JESSY HODGES (03:15)
Oh, I can’t believe that that’s true. Look at this podcast studio.
MIKE ELDER (03:19)
That’s very sweet. And I wasn’t fishing, but, like, we don’t want to step on toes, but, like, at what point do you, like, even Matt Jones, I interviewed yesterday, and he was like, I don’t know if my agent watches my tape. And I’m like, you could ask. He’s like, I could, but what’s that gonna do? Yeah, but do you, like, have pow? When do you start having powwows with agents?
Do you have them?
JESSY HODGES (03:37)
Do you check in with my manager? I for sure do.
MIKE ELDER (03:41)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (03:42)
And with my agents, I kind of do, depending. Also, I’m in this transition where my. My agent from forever just became my manager. So we’re in, like, a transitional moment. But, yeah, I try to. And I also try to resist the urge to just, like, reach out and connect for the sake of it. To make me feel like I’m doing something and wasting people’s time.
It’s like the same with the tape. Like, did you watch it? It’s like, what is that gonna get you?
Even though I 1000% understand the impulse. You know what I mean?
MIKE ELDER (04:20)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (04:21)
I do think that there’s something to being a squeaky wheel, to being, like, you know, just looping people in a lot. Hence, like, looping people in. Even for this podcast, I’m like, we’re all working together, so let’s all work together. But I’m also not trying to just, like, create bullshit. Create busy work. Create, like, I don’t know.
Does that make sense?
MIKE ELDER (04:44)
Yeah. I struggle with the idea of wanting to be on the front of their mind. Like, if my commercial agent has 200 clients, like, am I at the front of his mind? You know what I mean? And if I check in, even, like, a book out I consider, like, a touch point and a check in. It’s not a powwow, but it’s like saying, hey, I’m still here.
JESSY HODGES (05:02)
Totally.
MIKE ELDER (05:03)
And then suddenly you get an audition right after you book out, obviously. But, like.
JESSY HODGES (05:06)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (05:06)
I don’t know. I just wrestle with how much contact you make with your reps. Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (05:11)
Curious if you had a. I think you stay in contact, but you’re not. But don’t be obnoxious and don’t be constantly reaching out. I think that’s my. And also, I’m like, the good work begets the good work.
Like, just do good. Do a good job and they’re gonna stay in contact.
That’s sort of.
MIKE ELDER (05:28)
But if they’re not watching the auditions.
JESSY HODGES (05:30)
That’s true.
MIKE ELDER (05:31)
How do they know?
JESSY HODGES (05:32)
Well, but if you’re getting called back, if you’re getting Whatever. If there is, like, something. If you’re putting energy out into the world and then it’s being met some somehow.
MIKE ELDER (05:40)
When was the last time you got a callback?
JESSY HODGES (05:42)
A callback?
MIKE ELDER (05:43)
Well, I feel like I’ve been on a skid.
JESSY HODGES (05:49)
I mean, everything has changed so much.
MIKE ELDER (05:52)
I know.
JESSY HODGES (05:54)
I mean, it’s been. It’s been a bit. It’s been a bit because some. Because lately it’s been more like. I feel like it’s been a lot more all or nothing. Like, I’m either doing something and it’s clear, and maybe there isn’t even a callback or it was an offer or something, or it’s just like, I’m not hearing to a degree that I’m like, what the hell? Because I feel like my.
Like, five or 10 years ago, it was like my middle name was Callback, you know, like, that was. That was all I was doing with my life. And now things have shifted a bit.
MIKE ELDER (06:33)
Well, it feels like they streamlined everything, including callbacks. Yes. Like, truthfully, I feel like I do.
JESSY HODGES (06:37)
Feel like it’s maybe more meaningful now.
MIKE ELDER (06:39)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (06:40)
Now if someone’s like, they’re interested or they’re sending your tape on or there’s a. Whatever. It’s like, oh, damn.
MIKE ELDER (06:46)
Yeah, I would agree 1000%. How much are you auditioning right now and what percentage of those are things you get from your reps versus, like, your connections from your comedy world?
JESSY HODGES (06:57)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (06:59)
Or just world.
JESSY HODGES (07:00)
I guess I’m auditioning some, but, like, less just because of the state of things. I’m also doing a lot more writing and directing and making my own stuff. So most of my time right now is spent doing that stuff. So, yeah, I’m auditioning some and then also. Yeah. Like, I’m about to do a friend’s short film that she just offered me, and I. I’m working on this commercial campaign that actually was a. I did.
That was like a straight to a callback thing that, like, everything just feels a little bit more, like, nuanced and specific these days.
MIKE ELDER (07:43)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (07:44)
It’s not the whole, like, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
MIKE ELDER (07:47)
Yeah. Do you audition a lot commercially? Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (07:51)
I was gonna say no, but. But I’ve. For the last, like, I used to a while ago, and then for the last, like five years or something, I’ve said to my commercial agent, like, if you see something really good.
MIKE ELDER (08:06)
Okay.
JESSY HODGES (08:06)
If you see something with like a great director or something that could be like a really long standing, lucrative thing, let me know. And maybe. Yeah, and one of those came up.
MIKE ELDER (08:17)
Which is that campaign. Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (08:18)
Yes. And.
MIKE ELDER (08:20)
And you booked it?
JESSY HODGES (08:21)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (08:21)
Nice.
JESSY HODGES (08:22)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (08:22)
You haven’t shot it yet?
JESSY HODGES (08:23)
I have.
MIKE ELDER (08:24)
Oh.
JESSY HODGES (08:24)
I’ve shot four. Oh, and we’ll see.
MIKE ELDER (08:26)
That is a campaign. Good for you.
JESSY HODGES (08:28)
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. And we’ll see how much it keeps going, but it’s great.
MIKE ELDER (08:34)
Why did you shift away from commercials ever? Because.
JESSY HODGES (08:37)
Because the auditioning was so time consuming.
MIKE ELDER (08:41)
That’s literally what Matt Jones said yesterday.
JESSY HODGES (08:43)
It was so time consuming and also so soul sucking. And when I was working enough that I didn’t have, I was like, if I don’t have to, this feels like a waste of time. I also did not book a lot of stuff commercially. It was like every once in a while I’d get something. But I bet Matt Jones did much.
MIKE ELDER (09:01)
Yeah, he had a good run. And that’s what I’m like, why would you leave that? Bread and butter?
JESSY HODGES (09:05)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (09:06)
It’s so funny because I just feel like commercial and TV are so siloed. Like, you’re auditioning exclusively TV or you’re doing it for commercials. Like, I see so many funny people at commercial auditions that don’t get TV auditions. And I’m just like, I know why it’s so weird.
JESSY HODGES (09:19)
I know, I know. And a lot of. I feel like it goes the other way too. Like, a lot of great TV actors who just like, kind of were never in that world either because they’re not interested. Which, like, fair enough.
MIKE ELDER (09:33)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (09:34)
Or. But just because they never got in and they’re kind of like, wait, I would love to get paid a lot for one day of work or whatever. Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (09:44)
Wait, is this campaign. Are you like the spokesman?
JESSY HODGES (09:47)
Yeah, I Mean, let’s say allegedly unclear.
MIKE ELDER (09:54)
Until it comes out.
JESSY HODGES (09:55)
I am playing a spokesperson role.
MIKE ELDER (09:59)
Okay.
JESSY HODGES (09:59)
But I’m not yet in like a contract with them. That would be like they’ve bought me for the next. You know.
MIKE ELDER (10:06)
Right. They need to let it out and see how people respond.
JESSY HODGES (10:08)
Exactly. It’s new, so it’s still like maybe it’s.
MIKE ELDER (10:11)
So that’s like. That’s what we want.
JESSY HODGES (10:15)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (10:16)
I interviewed Jeremy Brandt, who’s the Capital One bank guy. Yeah, he’s fascinating guy. But yeah, all those guys, they shoot for like two weeks a year and then they just shoot. They roll out 30 different commercials throughout the year.
JESSY HODGES (10:28)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (10:29)
It’s wild. Like mayhem. I know. Has a. Has a thing in his deal where he can only shoot like four days of the year. Whatever.
JESSY HODGES (10:35)
Yes. Yeah. I mean it’s an incredible job and I just feel like if you like I’m. I’m, you know, working in like, I’m sort of in like pre.
Pre production on. On an indie feature that will be. That I’m co directing, co wrote that I’m in our directorial debut or for a feature anyway. And you know, I’ve been working on that for four years and have yet to be paid. I will probably make it and have yet to be paid. Maybe, maybe it will have to pay me something because of the union. But like I’m like this, this. That. This pays for that and I’m very grateful for it.
MIKE ELDER (11:20)
Yeah, for sure.
JESSY HODGES (11:21)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (11:22)
That’s really exciting. Good for you.
JESSY HODGES (11:23)
Thanks.
MIKE ELDER (11:23)
You mentioned like making your own stuff and I watched your short. Every part of you.
JESSY HODGES (11:28)
Oh yeah, it’s great. Thanks.
MIKE ELDER (11:30)
I want to. So I quit my job last month and I’m going to. I’m on like a creative sabbatical and I’m going to shoot my short film at the end of the month. So I just wanted to ask you. That was your first thing you directed, right? That.
JESSY HODGES (11:40)
That’s the first thing I directed. We. I did like a couple other shorts before that that I was very creatively involved with. I co wrote a short that I also starred in and produced but didn’t direct called Sundowners that went to Sundance. That was really cool. And then a couple before that. But yeah, every part of you is the first thing I dreamt.
MIKE ELDER (12:04)
Yeah, it was great. And I just wanted to ask you as a fellow creative, like, what did you learn from that experience or what did you take away that you’d wished you’d known going into it?
JESSY HODGES (12:13)
Oh my God.
MIKE ELDER (12:13)
Cause like I have my own anxieties. About producing and, like, organizing people and stuff. But, like, what did you stress out that didn’t end up mattering and things you forgot about that you ended up needing or anything like that?
JESSY HODGES (12:26)
Oh, my God, the list. Yeah. That could be a long list.
MIKE ELDER (12:30)
This isn’t good for my anxiety.
JESSY HODGES (12:32)
No. But also, like, you’re gonna have that list.
MIKE ELDER (12:37)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (12:38)
That’s what the first time is, you know, like, that would be the first thing. Just, like, embrace the fact that, like, it will not be perfect. There will be mistakes.
And part of. I think part of a director’s job is, like. Is improvising and pivoting and figuring out how to navigate when everything’s not. If everything’s perfect, it might as well be like, AI.
MIKE ELDER (13:00)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (13:01)
Directing the. Which it will be, but.
But not your short at the end of the month. I. I mean, God, there’s, like. There’s like. There’s. There are so many things. Mine was very ambitious.
Mine’s like a period piece, and there’s a movie within the movie, and that was a lot. Like, I would say, for your first short, try to do something manageable.
MIKE ELDER (13:34)
Keep it simple.
JESSY HODGES (13:35)
Yeah. Yeah. And also, I think a great idea is. I think trying to do something interesting is valuable. And I don’t want to just see, like, someone sitting on a couch in a room having a banal conversation, you know? So I think it is. It’s worthy to, like, take a big swing.
But also, if you can kind of do that while knowing the limitations of your budget and your space and whatever, that’s ideal.
MIKE ELDER (14:11)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (14:11)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (14:12)
There’s just so many moving parts when it’s, like, so funny. Like, when you finally, like, write it down in a sheet and, like, try to get all your shots, you’re just like this. It’s amazing.
Anything gets made.
JESSY HODGES (14:21)
It’s incredible. There are so many moving parts. Yeah. Like, production design. Production design is, like, so clutch. And there was more I wish that I had done in that department.
MIKE ELDER (14:37)
Yeah. That’s always tricky for me. Cause what is? Like, I literally put a plant over there before you came. And then I took it out. I was, like, trying to figure out. Exactly. Because you see all these other podcasts, and they have so much interesting shit behind them.
And I’m like, I got a tiny room. What can I actually put in here and make it nice? But to me, something simple is better than overcrowded, almost. Honestly, like, you’re the focus. I don’t want to pull focus from you, is what I ended up thinking. So the plant’s no longer there.
JESSY HODGES (15:03)
Yeah, that plant would have really.
MIKE ELDER (15:06)
The other thing is, like, lighting to me is like, I don’t know how gaffers do it. Like, lighting is wild to me.
JESSY HODGES (15:12)
Lighting is wild. I can’t begin to know about that. I know what I want. There are some things in this life that I’m like, I’m not gonna learn that. That’s not something I want to learn. I don’t have space for it. I said to my husband recently, I was like, I’m never going to know about the pool.
I’m never going to know how the pool works. Yes, we have a swimming pool. I’m like, stop trying to explain the pump to me. I’m not going to know. I don’t. I’m smart enough I could know. I don’t want to.
I don’t have space for it. I don’t want to know about the pool.
MIKE ELDER (15:54)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (15:55)
You know, that’s such a random thing.
MIKE ELDER (15:58)
I’ve never thought of how a pool works to me. I’m like, oh, you just put water in a. Oh, honey, but you got chlorine. You got ph.
JESSY HODGES (16:08)
God, that’s hilarious. Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (16:12)
Oh, man.
JESSY HODGES (16:12)
But you know what? To that. To that end, I do feel like a big thing that I learned and really saw in action was like, trust people that you hire. Hire people that you trust and then trust the people you hire because you don’t know about lighting and you actually shouldn’t. That’s not your job. You’re not the gaffer.
MIKE ELDER (16:34)
Right.
JESSY HODGES (16:34)
You. You should have a sense of what you’re looking for, and then they will show you how to implement that. You know, I think people forget to trust the people they hire.
MIKE ELDER (16:46)
I agree 1,000%. And that’s a great reminder. It’s like, you know what you don’t know, and that’s why you bring in these people. And it’s a creative process. We’re all here together. It’s not just me.
JESSY HODGES (16:57)
Yes.
MIKE ELDER (16:57)
But I think I come from the side of. It’s like, look, I’m the producer, writer, booker, everything for this podcast. Lighter everything, production design. So all my self tapes are on that wall. I’m the editor for that, the lighter for the self tape.
You know what I mean? So, like, we’re in this place now where we are asked to do so much.
JESSY HODGES (17:16)
It’s true.
MIKE ELDER (17:17)
And I just am from that world where I don’t even want to ask for help. I’m at the point now on my self tapes where I run my lines with AI. I literally put the script in and Once my line’s done, they read the other line, and it’s like, so much easier than calling a friend and being like, are you available in 30 minutes to help me with this?
JESSY HODGES (17:35)
Well, you know what I’ve done from the beginning of time?
MIKE ELDER (17:37)
Record them yourself.
JESSY HODGES (17:38)
Yeah, yeah. I just. It’s just me. And me.
MIKE ELDER (17:41)
But the problem is the timing, right? Because the timing might be different. This just responds right when you’re done, which is beautiful.
JESSY HODGES (17:47)
I mean, that’s smart. I’m not gonna do that because I cannot embrace the technology, but it is really smart.
MIKE ELDER (17:54)
Let’s talk about that. I actually had an AI written down.
JESSY HODGES (17:56)
Because I’m kind of scared of it. I’m not your lady. That’s like the pool.
Like, I don’t know.
MIKE ELDER (18:01)
Well, okay. It seems you don’t want it to help and you scared of it. Well, I’m stuck between this. Like, it’s gonna take all our jobs and we’re all doomed versus let’s use it to, like, I see both sides and I’m, like, scared and anxious.
JESSY HODGES (18:15)
I feel like the guys who make script notes, you know that podcast. I love the script notes. I’ve been a while, actually, and they. I feel like whenever they talk about it, they say something that I’m just going to cop right now, which is like, if AI is doing something that is not directly taking a person’s job, fine. If you’re, like, using it in editing to smooth over something that would have just been the editor doing it anyway, fine. As long as they’re still an editor and an editor’s assistant and whatever else. As long as it’s not taking someone’s job.
But once it’s taking someone’s job, I’m not into it. Yeah, yeah.
Why are we here?
MIKE ELDER (19:04)
Oh, God.
JESSY HODGES (19:05)
You know what I mean? I just feel like anyone who’s into it, I’m like, okay, so follow up question. Why are we here?
MIKE ELDER (19:13)
Are you talking broadly? Why is anyone on Earth?
JESSY HODGES (19:17)
Yeah. If our, like, oh, boy. If our jobs are going to be taken away by technology, then what are we supposed to be doing and what’s the purpose?
MIKE ELDER (19:31)
I mean, the obvious answer is connection. Human connection.
JESSY HODGES (19:36)
Yeah, I know it sounds like I’m making an argument that, like, everyone is here to work.
MIKE ELDER (19:41)
Actually, it does kind of.
JESSY HODGES (19:43)
It’s like a little capitalist, but I don’t think so. I think it’s like we. I think we are here to work, but not in a capitalist way. In, like, a purposeful.
MIKE ELDER (19:53)
Have you ever seen what is. Fuck. I’m going to blank on it. Timothy Chalamet. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. He grew up in an artist subsidized housing.
Oh, you know, Ms. Timmy.
JESSY HODGES (20:03)
Sorry, no, no.
MIKE ELDER (20:05)
He grew up in an artist subsidized housing in New York.
JESSY HODGES (20:08)
Yes, I actually knew that.
MIKE ELDER (20:09)
And that’s a huge building where it’s like, it’s really cheap based on your income and it’s only artists or 95% artists. To me. It’s like when we don’t have jobs, maybe we can make more art if we get some sort of UBI or something like that.
You know what I mean?
JESSY HODGES (20:25)
If we’re just like, somehow funded by the government or.
MIKE ELDER (20:28)
Well, I think they’re gonna have. Okay, this is not what my podcast is about. If we get a universal basic income, which it seems like we have to.
JESSY HODGES (20:35)
At some point, that does change.
MIKE ELDER (20:38)
And then we are just. We’re gonna make art. We’re woodwork, we’re gonna draw, we’re gonna. And granted, AI is gonna do it better, but I mean, we’re gonna do that.
JESSY HODGES (20:47)
I guess so. But then like, for example, like, okay, if you have a robot in your house or AI and they’re doing all your cooking and cleaning, oh, that’d be great. I don’t know. I don’t know. I think humans are meant to cook.
MIKE ELDER (21:06)
Okay. That’s the grand scheme.
JESSY HODGES (21:10)
I think that there’s. I’m just like, where do we lose all humanity? Then it becomes like full leisure all the time. I just don’t. I don’t think that that would be as like, as euphoric or like, as happiness inducing as we might imagine.
MIKE ELDER (21:31)
I think you’re talking to the wrong person. Cause I literally just quit my job to do a creative sabbatical, and I feel like my life is great right now.
JESSY HODGES (21:38)
You’re working.
MIKE ELDER (21:39)
Am I?
JESSY HODGES (21:41)
That is just a different kind. But that’s. I, That’s.
MIKE ELDER (21:43)
I’m not getting paid, so I’m volunteering, if anything.
JESSY HODGES (21:46)
I mean. Honey, preach.
MIKE ELDER (21:50)
It is interesting. Like, it. I, Like I said, I do go back and forth with it. And as long as it’s not taking a job and it’s making my life easier, like, yeah, yeah, I support that. But I do worry when it’s going to start taking. When it’s going to start taking acting jobs specifically and writing jobs, and.
JESSY HODGES (22:07)
Yeah, it’s not great. Yeah, I deeply worry about that too. And I just have to believe in a world where that’s not gonna happen.
MIKE ELDER (22:18)
But if my software is not taking a job running Lines with you in your audition. Are you gonna embrace it if your.
JESSY HODGES (22:25)
Software is not taking a. Right, right, right, right, right. Exactly.
MIKE ELDER (22:29)
Are you gonna try it? It’s great.
JESSY HODGES (22:30)
Exactly. Well, my.
Okay, so that’s a great example. That is not an issue. Although you could argue maybe, like, I would be paying an assistant or something. But you would pay an assistant to.
MIKE ELDER (22:41)
Help with an audition?
JESSY HODGES (22:43)
Yes.
MIKE ELDER (22:44)
You have. You do.
JESSY HODGES (22:45)
Regularly. No, I don’t, but my partner and I are. I. We’re every. We’re constantly on the brink of getting an assistant.
MIKE ELDER (22:58)
For auditions?
JESSY HODGES (22:59)
No, no, for life. For life.
MIKE ELDER (23:01)
Right, right.
JESSY HODGES (23:02)
But. But that would be running lines. Are you kidding me?
MIKE ELDER (23:07)
Interesting.
JESSY HODGES (23:08)
And. And taping.
MIKE ELDER (23:09)
Do Hollywood assistants run lines?
JESSY HODGES (23:11)
Yes.
MIKE ELDER (23:11)
Oh, I didn’t know that.
JESSY HODGES (23:12)
Oh, my God. Any set you’re on, the lead is there with their assistant running lines. It’s like a huge part of the job.
MIKE ELDER (23:20)
I had no idea.
JESSY HODGES (23:20)
Running lines, getting coffee, getting dry cleaning.
MIKE ELDER (23:23)
Well, that stuff makes sense. We’re running lines.
JESSY HODGES (23:26)
No, running lines. Seriously?
MIKE ELDER (23:27)
Huh.
JESSY HODGES (23:28)
I’ve seen it a lot.
MIKE ELDER (23:29)
Well, hire an assistant and screw AI.
JESSY HODGES (23:31)
I will. I’ll report back.
MIKE ELDER (23:34)
Do you ever pay for auditions, like coaching or anything like that? Or filming self tapes, like a self tape studio or anything?
JESSY HODGES (23:40)
No, no. I. I think maybe I had to do that, like, one time when I was living in Atlanta and I just needed the space, but, like, I have enough of an acting community that I feel like people are just doing that for each other all the time, but.
MIKE ELDER (23:57)
Oh, I see. Yeah, I was gonna say because for me, it’s hard without, like, direction. So that’s. If I get, like, a good theatrical audition, I’m like, I need somebody to tell me what to do.
JESSY HODGES (24:05)
Yeah, yeah. I have that in friends and people that I trust, where I’m like, I would trust you over most acting coaches. Yeah, yeah, some. There’s a certain level of acting coach that I would, of course, trust, but. Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (24:25)
Some would argue your friends are taking jobs from acting coaches.
JESSY HODGES (24:30)
Well, that’s okay.
MIKE ELDER (24:36)
As long as it’s a human taking a job.
JESSY HODGES (24:38)
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
MIKE ELDER (24:39)
What is your thoughts on self tapes? How have you been doing with those? You know, post pandemic, post strike.
JESSY HODGES (24:45)
I. Okay, so I’m married to an actor, so we’re very lucky in that way. Like, we can just do tapes with each other.
MIKE ELDER (24:54)
And that’s what Matt Jones literally said too.
JESSY HODGES (24:56)
Yeah, I mean that.
MIKE ELDER (24:57)
But he said it’s also stressful because it adds a little bit of chaos to it at times.
JESSY HODGES (25:02)
Totally, totally. We. We’ve been together so long, I feel like, we’ve pretty much like, nailed our system. But in the beginning, I remember being like, you’re judging me.
It’s bad, right? It’s bad. And you think it’s bad and you’re acting like it’s not bad. Don’t say it like that. But I think. What was I saying?
MIKE ELDER (25:27)
You have a system now with your.
JESSY HODGES (25:29)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So that’s really good. Oh, oh, oh. But about self taping in general. And I have all these, like, great friends who are great actors and who also direct and people who I And write and who I really trust. So because I have those resources, I like it a lot. However. Yeah. And I feel like I like having control over the process.
I really like being like, ugh, I didn’t get that exactly the way I wanted to. Or like taping it and then being like, the angle’s weird.
You know, you can’t. You can’t control all that shit when you’re in an audition.
That being said, especially zoom. Zoom audition is the lowest on the list. I would say. First is to go in, second is to tape. Then the zoom audition. I just find that really, really difficult. But what the.
The end of that thought is that, like, I ha. As much as I actually like, do, like, taping, I miss going into rooms so much and I miss seeing people so much. I didn’t realize that those girls who were, like, intimidating me in my early 20s in the waiting room were actually going to, like, be my community and people who I would genuinely look forward to seeing, you know? And I miss that a lot.
MIKE ELDER (27:06)
Yeah. That’s the connection we are here for.
JESSY HODGES (27:08)
That’s the connection we are here for.
MIKE ELDER (27:09)
We’re not here to stand by a wall and like, criticize ourselves and say our lips look weird or whatever.
JESSY HODGES (27:16)
Exactly. And look at our. Yeah. Yes. A thousand percent.
MIKE ELDER (27:19)
Have you booked much Office Self tapes?
JESSY HODGES (27:22)
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
I mean, not like a ton, but. But several things.
MIKE ELDER (27:28)
That’s great.
JESSY HODGES (27:29)
Yeah, Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (27:31)
I wrestle with it because I love going in person, obviously. But like I said, I just like a direction. Like. And I like you. You don’t necessarily get feedback in the room, but you do. You can read the room and be like, okay, that felt good.
JESSY HODGES (27:44)
Totally.
MIKE ELDER (27:45)
In a self tape, you’re like, whoops, where to go. Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (27:49)
And you can ask questions.
MIKE ELDER (27:50)
It’s almost like a Snapchat. It’s like gone. And you’re like, exactly.
JESSY HODGES (27:53)
Exactly. Right.
MIKE ELDER (27:54)
Well, I don’t like that.
JESSY HODGES (27:55)
I mean, truly. Yeah. Yeah. The not getting direction part, sometimes I’m like, pretty Sure. I know exactly what this is. But sometimes you’re like, I don’t know the tone of this at all. And it’s really a tone thing.
Even more than, like a character thing. Sometimes it’s a character thing too, but tone, it’s like, what world are we living in?
MIKE ELDER (28:18)
Yeah, it’s hard.
JESSY HODGES (28:19)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (28:20)
I find. And I only audition for almost exclusively, like, one or two line things.
JESSY HODGES (28:25)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (28:26)
And it’s so hard on a self tape because I’m like, you don’t want to overdo it. Like, I just had one for Euphoria and it was like, pull up there. Oh, God, my sleigh was longer than my two takes off to shit.
JESSY HODGES (28:37)
You know what?
MIKE ELDER (28:40)
Fuck. Is anyone. What am I doing right now?
JESSY HODGES (28:44)
I’m not. That’s so hard. That’s not just so hard on the taping, but that’s so hard on the day too.
MIKE ELDER (28:50)
Oh, yeah.
JESSY HODGES (28:51)
I’ve. I feel like I’ve always said. But I’ve heard other people say this too. Like, the hardest. The person with the hardest job on set is the person who’s like, here’s your coffee, Mr. Smith.
MIKE ELDER (29:01)
Thousand percent.
JESSY HODGES (29:02)
That is so hard.
MIKE ELDER (29:06)
It’s brutal.
JESSY HODGES (29:07)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (29:07)
But then, like, with that, you, like, send it off and you’re like, what? But also you. Do you want to. You’re tempted to do like 10 takes. Cause you’re like, how much variation can you put on this?
Yeah, I want to put a little pizzazz. Do you have any ways you stand out or try to stand out in self tapes? Lately, I’ve heard some interesting things, and I’m curious.
JESSY HODGES (29:28)
Yeah, I heard a casting director recently. I feel like my Instagram has finally figured out that I’m an actor. Like the album.
MIKE ELDER (29:38)
Oh, are they clips from my podcast? Maybe.
JESSY HODGES (29:41)
Maybe.
MIKE ELDER (29:42)
Who was it?
JESSY HODGES (29:42)
Well, it was. It was a casting director. It was like I was getting fed, you know, casting stuff, and it was. It was a casting director basically saying, like, try to make the first. Try to do something interesting in the first, like 15 to 30 seconds of the tape. And I don’t know, on the one hand, there’s like a puritanical part of me that’s like, that’s not acting. That is not script analysis.
That’s not character analysis. That’s not like. That’s the last thing that anyone should be thinking about. They should be thinking about how to do this, like, authentically and well. And yet I understand that if you’re saying, like, park over there in one episode of Euphoria, you’re not doing a bunch of Script analysis.
And there is a very practical. They’re going through hundreds of tapes like, this isn’t Chekhov’s Russia. Like, we are where we are, unfortunately. So I do think that that’s. I think that that’s interesting, but it probably leads to so many insane. Probably leads to people starting off their tapes like, okay, park over there, Mr. Jones. And you’re like, why did she do 19 things?
But I don’t know. I don’t know if I have actually implemented that advice at all, but I have thought about that advice.
MIKE ELDER (31:23)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (31:25)
I don’t know if there’s anything I do to.
MIKE ELDER (31:28)
It’s tough because that’s like, I’m a rule follower. And I’ve said this in the last few podcasts, but, like, it’s becoming clear to your point a little bit that, like, we have to do more than just sit there and do the scene and let the character develop. And like, you, they want you to film more and more commercials. They want you to use your environment and film it like, you know what I mean? And it’s just like. So I’m just like, I want to follow the rules and be in my square with a gray background. But how do you stand out in that when everyone else is going out and actually shooting the thing or.
JESSY HODGES (32:03)
Right. Oh, God, it’s tough. Yeah. I don’t know about that with. With like, using your environment. I haven’t had that experience at all. I’m just, like, against a backdrop, too.
MIKE ELDER (32:16)
But I. I think us actors are doing us a disservice if we’re giving away more of the stuff. Like, we’re already editing this. We’re already. And like, to us, thousand percent, nobody’s on the same team. It feels like at times, which sucks.
JESSY HODGES (32:28)
Because, yeah, I’m like, no. But I do think, like, one of the things that I always a sort of guiding principle, making tapes is if I find myself trying to do something or trying to be something, that is where I’m pushing. That doesn’t feel like an authentic extension of myself as this character. I’m always like, they’ll find her. If they need. Like, if they need the funniest woman in the world, they’ll find her.
She’s not me. If they need the hottest person on this planet, they’ll find she’s not me. Mike’s available. Call Mike.
You know, I just. I try to, like, remind myself, like, all I can sell is what I’m selling.
MIKE ELDER (33:25)
Yeah, that’s healthy.
JESSY HODGES (33:26)
You know, does that make sense?
MIKE ELDER (33:28)
But also my discount you a Little bit to somebody, you’re the hottest person in the world and you’re the funniest person in the world, probably. Right.
JESSY HODGES (33:34)
Well, and then. And then they will. It’s really just like a reminder to not be trying to do what anyone, only to try to do what I do the best. You know, not to be trying to reach for what someone else.
MIKE ELDER (33:49)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (33:49)
Does.
MIKE ELDER (33:50)
That’s. That’s good advice.
You mentioned, like acting theory, and I know you went to Tish specifically. A weird one, right? It was experimental or something.
JESSY HODGES (33:59)
Yeah, a weird one.
MIKE ELDER (34:00)
Well, I’ve had so many Tish people on this podcast. Like.
JESSY HODGES (34:03)
Yeah, what’s.
MIKE ELDER (34:03)
What was. What were we doing for experimental? Was it experimental theater?
JESSY HODGES (34:06)
The experimental theater wing. It’s a.
MIKE ELDER (34:09)
What are you doing in. What wild crazy things are you getting up to in there?
JESSY HODGES (34:11)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (34:12)
Speaking of dramatic choices in the first 15 seconds.
JESSY HODGES (34:16)
Yeah, honestly. Okay, so ETW is.
MIKE ELDER (34:21)
Oh, ETW.
JESSY HODGES (34:22)
ETW.
MIKE ELDER (34:24)
Wait, experimental theater Wing. Wing. Oh, you had a wing?
JESSY HODGES (34:28)
I was part of a wing. I was a member of a wing for four years.
MIKE ELDER (34:33)
Wow.
JESSY HODGES (34:35)
Okay. So basically the approach there, it’s kind of a. It’s the only studio at NYU that’s like a melting pot. It’s. It’s putting together, it pieces together a lot of different sort of acting styles and approaches and theories. Whereas, like Adler is Adler, which comes from Stanislavski, and Meisner is Meisner and whatever Atlantic is.
What is Atlantic? Atlantic is like mammoth that also like Stanislavski based, I think totally Strasbourg. Same thing. But. But at etw, there is a big emphasis, especially in like your first year or two of physical theater training, which at etw it comes from Grotofsky, which is this like Polish experimental theater maker from like, I don’t know, the 19th century or so. I don’t know when he was working, maybe maybe early 20th, but he did, he did a lot of like, exercises, like plastiques and his. And these like animal exercises, whatever.
But I think the. The basis of it is essentially like trying to. Well, maybe it’s like a two tier thing trying to sort of bring you back to the body and sort of rid you of like all the weird habits and mannerisms that we have all, you know, come up with or that that sort of happens to us throughout our lives, so becoming like a blank slate a little bit. But also a highly attuned body, because the body, I feel like it’s like the body keeps the score in trauma work. It’s like the body is responding first and then the brain. So to have this like receptive, reactive vessel. But then also there’s a lot of work around.
They call it, like, inside out work, which is basically like, what if I started crying? Like, I started to do all the things you do when you cry, which is like, you go like that in your face, kind of frowned and you start doing. And what if that was the way in to actually feeling sadness, to reminding your body of how that feels? Which is sort of very antithetical to, like, all the kind of sense memory from within into out work. It’s this out or out and more.
MIKE ELDER (37:27)
Got it.
JESSY HODGES (37:27)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (37:28)
She did four years of that.
JESSY HODGES (37:30)
So I would say.
MIKE ELDER (37:34)
I feel like that would be like a mind fuck a little bit.
JESSY HODGES (37:36)
It is a mind.
MIKE ELDER (37:37)
And, like, were you manifesting that into, like, were you putting up shows at all? Or was it just strictly like. So the first you’d be in a black box with your group doing this cry exercise.
JESSY HODGES (37:48)
The first year is, like, basically rolling around on the floor. They hardly let you speak.
MIKE ELDER (37:55)
It sounds great, honestly.
JESSY HODGES (37:56)
Yes, I kind of wish I would. Honestly. It was incredible. In the moment, it was like, what am I doing with my life? At Stella Adler, they’re already reading Shakespeare sonnets. Like, this is so pointless now. I am so deeply grateful for it.
I think it was the most incredible training. And. Yeah, so the first year was, like, a lot of nothing. Or like, wild scene study, where basically the whole point was like, learn the lines, like, by rote. Do not put any thoughts or feelings or expectations onto the lines. Learn them like they’re abcdefgh, whatever. And then, like, exploring the space and your relationship to one another through, like, these physical improvisational exercises.
Basically, just like, people doing fool for Love. And one person is lying face down naked, and someone else is, like, drawing on the walls, but they’re saying the dialogue from fool for Love. And that was our. That was our scene study first year.
MIKE ELDER (39:04)
Wild.
JESSY HODGES (39:05)
Yeah, it was really wild. And then it all came out of, like, the 70s. That’s. That’s where this stuff, like La Mama and Worcester Group, all this experimental theater in the 70s, like, was all, I think, sort of coalesced to form ETW in New York City.
MIKE ELDER (39:25)
Got it.
JESSY HODGES (39:25)
Take all this with a grain of salt. I’m, like, doing my best. And then the next couple years, we actually had, like, a Meisner class, and we had more traditional scene study classes.
We had a lot of Meisner, actually. A lot of repetition. And then also, the reason so many working artists have come out of that studio in particular is because there was a huge emphasis on what we called, like, self scripting, which is making your own work. And little did we know that we were sort of, like, at the precipice of that. Becoming everything.
MIKE ELDER (39:59)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (40:01)
But there was, like, a lot of self scripting, a lot of choreography, a lot of. Yeah. Clowning that.
MIKE ELDER (40:09)
I love that. Were you. So I’ve interviewed a lot of Tisch people, I said.
And I feel like. Was that just, like, then an 8 to 5 where you were with the same 30 people for four years and it was just. You’d show up at 8 and leave at 5? Basically, it wasn’t like you had classes.
JESSY HODGES (40:23)
It was like, essentially. Essentially it was like nine to five. And I think in the morning we had two classes and in the afternoon we had one. So it was three long classes. And there were, like. We were a class of 30 that was divided into two groups.
So I was with, like, 15 people. And those sort of, like, mix and match and change over the years. But, like. Yeah, basically.
MIKE ELDER (40:50)
That’s wild.
JESSY HODGES (40:50)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (40:51)
Such a different experience than I had. I went to a big university where it was like, 500 people in a lecture hall for Chemistry 101 or whatever.
And I didn’t know anybody. And it’s just so weird.
JESSY HODGES (41:01)
Well, the crazy thing was, like, I also. We also had that too, on, like, Tuesdays and Thursdays.
MIKE ELDER (41:06)
Oh, you did do that.
JESSY HODGES (41:07)
Yeah. We would then be like. Yeah, yeah.
So our studio. The whole thing about the BFA program at. And. Well, I guess any BFA program is you actually have to take humanities.
MIKE ELDER (41:17)
Oh, I didn’t realize.
JESSY HODGES (41:20)
Yeah. Like, at Juilliard, I think you don’t get a BFA at the conservatories because you’re not taking math or science or English or whatever. So. Yeah, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, we would go have, like, regular general NYU classes and it would be like, oh, college. Okay. Weird.
MIKE ELDER (41:42)
Did you. Did you have to ever do anything in public? I remember Nelson Franklin told me you had to pretend to be like, a giraffe in Bryant Park. And he was like, what am I doing with my life?
JESSY HODGES (41:49)
Yes, exactly.
MIKE ELDER (41:50)
But he had a great time, I think.
JESSY HODGES (41:52)
Yeah. We had to do yet. Was Nelson in ETW maybe for a period? Yeah, we had to do shit like that all the time. Invisible theater. Finding theater.
MIKE ELDER (42:04)
What’s invisible theater?
JESSY HODGES (42:06)
Like, it’s like. What do they call it? Like a. Like. Well, I was gonna compare it to, like, a dance mob. What are those things called where you.
MIKE ELDER (42:17)
Flash mob.
JESSY HODGES (42:18)
Flash mob, yeah. It’s kind of like that. Where. Where there will be people like Staying. I see, like, a square park or something. Cool. And you just think you’re a normal person walking through the park with coffee, and you notice, oh, that person’ something interesting over there.
And then you walk a little further and you’re like, huh, what is that? And then you realize those two things are connected. And then you realize, oh, I’m kind of standing in the middle of a performance. That’s happening.
MIKE ELDER (42:45)
Oh, that’s fun. Yeah, that’s cool. It’s kind of like the.
JESSY HODGES (42:50)
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
MIKE ELDER (42:52)
Interesting how. Let me ask you this, because were you, like, growing up doing musical theater and theater and stuff? Because, like, I aspired to. In retrospect, I’m like, I wish I went to a fun school like Tisch, but it wasn’t even on my radar in high school. I just went to the state university where everyone else went, and I didn’t even think twice about it. And you’re from Michigan, so how did you even know Tish was an option?
JESSY HODGES (43:20)
Yeah, that’s a good question. So my mom was an actor.
MIKE ELDER (43:26)
Oh, okay.
JESSY HODGES (43:27)
And. But. But never really in.
Like, she never moved to New York or L. A. She. She did some professional theater in the Detroit area, and she did some professional stuff. But, like. But I more mean, like, spiritually. She was an actor. Like, we just.
That was really, like, the vocabulary in our house was, like, performance and watching stuff and laughing. Like, I just felt like I was raised by an actor and, like, I was acting and performing kind of all the time from a really young age. And then I got involved with, like, local community theater or whatever. Not like, I wasn’t, like, working, but just. Just local stuff. And then started to do. Oh, and then I went to Interlochen Arts Camp, which is an incredible arts camp where everything’s got, like, a little more serious.
And then in high school, I was still doing theater, but, like, it was only when it was time for college that I was like, okay, I guess I need to. I should decide if I’m gonna major in this or not. And I actually, like, I always think back on this. I had this really memorable conversation with an older girl. I was, like, a junior, and she was a senior, and she was a friend of mine, and she was like, so, what are you thinking? What are you gonna do for college? And I was like, I don’t know. Maybe like.
Like, hopefully University of Michigan, you know, which is a great school. And she was like, I went to Minnesota.
MIKE ELDER (45:01)
Michigan sucks.
JESSY HODGES (45:02)
Oh, sorry. Right. Yeah. No, no, Minnesota sucks.
MIKE ELDER (45:06)
You got me.
JESSY HODGES (45:09)
As though I care.
MIKE ELDER (45:14)
Sorry, Sorry. To derail you.
JESSY HODGES (45:16)
No, no. Yes. She. And she was like, are you gonna audition for their. For theater? And I was like, no, I don’t.
I think I’m just gonna. I think I’m gonna do, like, psychology or, like, whatever I was thinking at the time. And she looked at me like. She gave me this look like, what? Why? Like, you should be doing theater. And it was, like, such a memorable look that I think that’s why I. I think I was like, oh, I should be doing theater.
Yeah, she’s right. Why was she. Yeah, it was like. You know, I just feel like when.
MIKE ELDER (45:52)
You’Re 17, you don’t know anything, man.
JESSY HODGES (45:54)
Yeah. And you can have these tiny conversations with people or tiny exchanges that can change your life thousand percent. So I, like, told my mom that I wanted to audition for schools, and then I think she, like, looked in a book that she bought at Barnes and Noble. It’s like, what are the theater schools? And I wasn’t allowed to go to the west coast, but I could go east coast stuff. And when it came.
MIKE ELDER (46:22)
Wait, why couldn’t you go to the west Coast?
JESSY HODGES (46:23)
Because it was too far.
MIKE ELDER (46:24)
Oh, got it.
JESSY HODGES (46:25)
Michigan. Like, New York is like an hour long flight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So when it came time to audition for nyu, my mom was like, I read about this thing called early decision, where if you go or if you get in, you have to go, but it also gives you a better chance of getting in. And I was like, oh, but it, like, binds you to that. She was like, yeah, but if you get into nyu, you’re gonna go. Right? And I was like, I guess that’s a good point.
So I did that and then literally knew I was going there by, like, November or December.
MIKE ELDER (47:01)
Oh, really?
JESSY HODGES (47:02)
Early.
MIKE ELDER (47:02)
That’s very cool.
JESSY HODGES (47:03)
Yeah. I was like, the first person in my grade who knew where they were going.
MIKE ELDER (47:06)
That’s very cool.
JESSY HODGES (47:07)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (47:08)
Yeah. It is funny how like, like, my friend’s dad was a civil engineer, and it seemed cool. So I just. And I was like, okay, I’ll be a civil engineer. That was it.
JESSY HODGES (47:16)
Right.
MIKE ELDER (47:16)
And I studied civil engineering, and I never really used it. What a bad decision. Because of a whim or whatever.
JESSY HODGES (47:24)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (47:25)
I wanted to ask you about. Indebted.
JESSY HODGES (47:27)
Yes.
MIKE ELDER (47:28)
Because by the way, I tried to watch it last night. It’s not available, but I wanted to ask you because. And for those that don’t know, it went one season right around Covid. Right. Like, and then it got canceled. But you were a series regular. You achieved what I consider, you know, the Pinnacle.
Everyone wants a TV show, right. To be a series regular. To me, that’s the goal. Matt Jones disagreed with me last night, but to me, it’s like you want to do a series regular for like six seasons and then never work again. But I realize pays a little different now. But that’s like the dream, I feel like. Right.
JESSY HODGES (48:00)
Yeah. So with the security.
MIKE ELDER (48:03)
Right. That’s what I’m saying. It’s like a great schedule or whatever. What was that like? Like you got there, you got a taste of that. I don’t know if that’s your dream or whatever, but, like, it’s a big step to become a series regular on a network TV show.
JESSY HODGES (48:16)
Yeah. And I had actually already done. That wasn’t the first.
MIKE ELDER (48:19)
Oh.
JESSY HODGES (48:20)
But I did a show called Hindsight on VH1. Oh, that. Yeah. Actually a great show also.
MIKE ELDER (48:30)
VH1. Great reference.
JESSY HODGES (48:32)
Yeah, it was a great. It was. You know, all of these networks had like a moment in time, like, oh, we’re gonna make legit shows.
MIKE ELDER (48:39)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (48:40)
And I think this is kind of like the only one that VH1 made, but it was actually a great show.
MIKE ELDER (48:44)
How many episodes did you do?
JESSY HODGES (48:46)
The whole. The seat, whatever. The season was like 10.
MIKE ELDER (48:49)
Oh, okay. I didn’t realize that. Okay.
JESSY HODGES (48:51)
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE ELDER (48:52)
Well then you did it twice. Great. You know.
JESSY HODGES (48:55)
Yeah, yeah, I’ve actually. Yeah, I’ve. I’ve done some pilots and stuff too, but yeah, two, I guess, seasons where I’m like working as a series regular. But it was interesting on Indebted because that was the first time I’d done it on a multi cam. And you think like, oh, people are like, oh my God, the hours. The hours are incredible.
MIKE ELDER (49:14)
That’s what I just said. Yeah, right. They’re not. Oh.
JESSY HODGES (49:18)
I mean, the thing is like, you’re. You’re not gonna shoot a 16 or 18 hour day, which like happens on single camera shows.
MIKE ELDER (49:28)
Right.
JESSY HODGES (49:29)
For sure. And when that happens, you are like, what am I doing with my life? Like, it.
That’s so crazy. But you get. You typically.
Unless you’re like number one. Number one. Number one.
You get a lot of days off too. On multi cams, you don’t get any days off. You are working basically every day from nine to six or whatever. Which. Then when you’re commuting from the east side to Culver City, we were shooting at Sony. That meant like an hour and a half commute both ways. So I was working every day from like, oh, you know, 7:30.
MIKE ELDER (50:05)
That’s where you need your assistant to drive You.
JESSY HODGES (50:07)
Yes, yes. So it was like. It felt like it was like a 6am to an 8pm job.
MIKE ELDER (50:15)
Okay.
JESSY HODGES (50:15)
So it was. Which, look, I understand a lot of people do that all the time, but it was. It was a lot and. And this was amazing. I would love to. I would love to do this again, but it’s very high pressure. It really does a multicam, sort of like Melds theater and tv because it’s so much live performance.
We were performing for a live audience on Fridays. So throughout the week, it would be like the table read. It would be like the studio table read, the network table read. Then it would be the production run through, the studio run through, the network run through. And all of those are like, big adrenalized performance opportunities where. Where you are very well aware of the fact that, like, if you don’t land a joke, if you don’t land a moment, if you. If you’re off your game, it will get cut and your lines will be.
It’ll be given to someone else. The scene will be cut, whatever. You are, like, fighting for your, you know, presence. So it was really. It. It was just really intense from. From a work standpoint.
And I also loved every second of it. Yeah, it was really hard, and I loved it, but it wasn’t, like, easy.
MIKE ELDER (51:34)
Yeah, well, I wouldn’t expect it to be easy. I wasn’t trying to say that. My question, I guess, was like, when you get that, are you grateful that you got the opportunity or are you really bummed that you only got one season? I guess is where I was going with that.
JESSY HODGES (51:48)
It’s like, no, no. I’m so grateful I had the opportunity. I am also right.
MIKE ELDER (51:54)
You can be both.
JESSY HODGES (51:55)
Yeah. I’m also bummed that it didn’t go, which was. I really think, in that case, a matter of timing. It was airing as Covid was hitting. It was like, oh, God, no. I mean, sorry, but, like, with the state of the industry now and as it’s been for the last at least five years, if not ten, I feel grateful anytime I’m working.
MIKE ELDER (52:22)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (52:23)
I really do. And I have no expectation of something going for a second season. Never.
MIKE ELDER (52:29)
That’s a bummer.
JESSY HODGES (52:31)
Yeah. No. I just have been burned too many times.
MIKE ELDER (52:34)
It’s such a. It’s just such a bummer because, like, hearing that, it’s like. And I told this to Matt, I’m like, when I see somebody that’s so far ahead of where I’m at and they’re just, like, not necessarily optimistic, it’s like, what Am I.
What is there? Where does that leave me?
JESSY HODGES (52:50)
It’s. It’s not that I’m not optimistic, it’s just that it’s. I think it. It has changed the look of it and the.
And what success looks like. It’s just those 90s sitcoms or early aught sitcoms that ran for seven seasons. It’s just like that now is like truly like needle in a haystack. It’s one in a zillion, you know, So I have no expectation of that anymore. Whereas I feel like it used to be like there was an expectation that. Or a reasonable expectation that the show, if it did well, would run for a couple seasons.
Even that now. But. But I feel like that’s why everyone is. Is diversifying and doing, you know, doing other stuff and also like work, work podcasts, working in other ways to sort of like build a career.
MIKE ELDER (53:50)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s wild.
JESSY HODGES (53:53)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (53:54)
You have to almost be a multi hyphenate. Even if it’s just a day job now. Like, I feel like it’s just so hard to.
JESSY HODGES (53:59)
Yeah, I survive. Agree. Even if you can do it monetarily, from a mental health standpoint, I’m like, even very successful actors who are working all the time. I don’t mean like a list, but. But people who work all the time get paid well. There. There are still at bare minimum months and months and months where they’re sitting around with nothing to do.
MIKE ELDER (54:26)
Yeah.
JESSY HODGES (54:27)
So you gotta figure out something. Whether it’s like building furniture.
MIKE ELDER (54:33)
Well, we need artists. Subsidize something. I don’t know how we do it though.
JESSY HODGES (54:40)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (54:40)
We’re almost to an hour. My last question is always, who took a chance on you?
JESSY HODGES (54:44)
Oh, that’s so nice. I mean, I get. The first person who came to mind was my manager, Danielle. Danielle has been with me. She literally saw me in a very embarrassing musical theater showcase.
MIKE ELDER (55:05)
Where you were working inside out. Trying to.
JESSY HODGES (55:09)
I sang two songs. But she, she recommended. Before she was an agent, she recommended me to my first agent. She’s just like looked out for me and we have now worked together in so many different capacities and I can’t imagine my career without her.
MIKE ELDER (55:28)
That’s awesome.
JESSY HODGES (55:28)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (55:29)
Beautiful. It’s important to have somebody like that. And it’s great you stayed with her so long.
JESSY HODGES (55:33)
Yeah, it’s. It’s been an amazing relationship, you guys.
MIKE ELDER (55:38)
Similar ages. She’s like, she starting at the same.
JESSY HODGES (55:41)
Time one of my best friend’s older sisters. So she’s like, oh, right.
MIKE ELDER (55:44)
Yeah. Okay. So she was.
JESSY HODGES (55:46)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (55:46)
Kind of in the same. That’s great.
JESSY HODGES (55:48)
She was. Yes, exactly.
We’ve been able to, like, grow together, which is really, really nice. Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (55:54)
I mean, that also goes back to what I was saying about, like, talking to your reps. Like, if you’re in the same ilk. Is that a term? If you’re in the same vat, I feel like it’s a lot easier to talk to them.
JESSY HODGES (56:04)
Totally.
MIKE ELDER (56:04)
Than if they’re 40 years older than you.
JESSY HODGES (56:07)
Right. You’re like, we don’t have a lot.
MIKE ELDER (56:09)
In common with the weather.
JESSY HODGES (56:12)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, that’s. That’s. It’s nice to have someone who’s young and hungry working for you. I always think that’s a good rule of thumb.
MIKE ELDER (56:23)
Yeah, I agree.
JESSY HODGES (56:24)
Yeah.
MIKE ELDER (56:24)
Jessy, this was a pleasure.
JESSY HODGES (56:26)
Yeah. Thank you so much.
MIKE ELDER (56:28)
Of course. Thank you for doing it.
JESSY HODGES (56:29)
I can’t believe it’s already been an hour.
MIKE ELDER (56:30)
Yeah. It’s 58 minutes.
JESSY HODGES (56:32)
Wow.
MIKE ELDER (56:33)
You get a tail slate now.
JESSY HODGES (56:35)
Bye. I’m Jessy Hodges.
